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Forecast3.0 - How your forecast has changed.

By Ben Freeston - Published on 27th January 2010 | Viewed 47148 times.

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CHANGES TO THE HEIGHT, PERIOD AND DIRECTION


Although computer forecasts have made us pretty familiar with tracking the 'height' and 'period' of incoming swell they've often blinded us to the problems of describing the ocean state at any one time in just two or three numbers. The Magicseaweed system actually tracks a much more complex set of forecast information for your local spot, but to date we've only displayed this complete breakdown in the forecast if you've selected the 'multiswell view'.

The 'swell' you used to see reported on your MSW forecast was something like an average of all swells present at that time. If you paddled your board five miles from the coast the larger waves would, on average, almost always be very close to the size we forecast, however on the beach some problems can occur:

- The dominant swell might be a reasonable wind swell, but hiding behind it might be a small but really punchy long range ground swell. As surfers we really want to see the best 'surfable' swell at all times.

- The dominant swell might not be heading towards the beach and again there might be another swell which, although smaller is heading in the right direction. As surfers we want to know about the swells that will make waves!

- The dominant swell might be a bumpy few feet but at such short period as to be unsurfable. If you're reasonably experienced with our forecast you'll know that a 3ft@4seconds swell will NEVER make a surfable wave. We love to surf, we even like to grovel if that's what we have to do but we can promise even the most desperate surfer on the biggest SUP board isn't getting waves from conditions like this. With the new forecast we simply don't show these swells. Again if hiding in the mix there IS a tiny more powerful swell we'll show that instead.

- A really strong offshore or cross shore wind will create waves and even a potentially surfable swell, but of course it'll be heading out to sea. These swells will never make a wave on your beach, but they might hide a swell that will so we now don't show them at all.

OUR NEW SWELL RATING


There's detailed information about our new rating here, but simply we're (as before) carefully analysing each component of a swell for conditions that look likely to make decent surf. We've always prioritised punchy, lined up conditions over simply 'big' surf and we now take this further with priority given to conditions likely to create barrelling waves where possible. You won't find the ratings changed radically but the algorithms that power them have improved, it'll just be a little more right and a little more useful.

GETTING THE FULL STORY


As ever MSW aims to be the most comprehensive source of forecast information on the web. With this change we want to ensure that everyone gets a more accurate and useful forecast, but that nothing is removed from surfers confident with their own analysis. To that end the 'multiswell' view we had available before has now been clearly labelled 'full swell breakdown'. This gives you, in the left hand column, the original dominant conditions from our previous forecast AND every component swell making up the conditions for each hour. From this you have everything you were used to using before and more, if you feel you need it.

I'M NOT A SURFER...


If you're using MSW but you're not a surfer the key question is 'are you most interested in the waves on the beach, or the swell offshore'. If you're, let's say, a bass fisherman you'll enjoy the new forecast and find it more accurate for surf casting than the old one, if however you're often sailing coastal cruises and using MSW for that you'll want to check the 'full swell breakdown', some of the swells that won't be making waves on the beach WILL be affecting your passage. You'll find the left hand column of this page will give you exactly the same information you had before.

WANT TO COMPARE?


If you don't like it, want the old one back, need more information or you just want to compare don't panic the old data is still 100% intact:




IN SUMMARY:


If none of this makes sense, or you've skipped the details the summary is that we're now doing for you what experienced forecasters were already using our data to achieve and that the 'height' and 'star rating' you see on the forecast should more regularly reflect the conditions you see on the beach.
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This article has been given an average rating of 3.71 from 990 votes.
Comments
 
Archived Comments
SublimeRocks341 days ago -5 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
too long, didnt read.
soutie456 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
come on Ben, is that all you have to say for yourself?
stew715 days ago +4 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
who would like to start up a FREE surf prediction web site??? think some of you guys should give it a go yourselfs instead of pickin holes....peace to the seaweed....
Ben Freeston715 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Cheers Stew - you wouldn't believe the fury we get in some email around the forecast from time to time, we're predicting the future here, it's not the easiest task to do let alone to do for free! - at the same time we want to get it right, it's so much better from my perspective that people feel we're going to listen to critisism and fix things up than just not using the site and bitching about it. So constructive comment and email always appreciated, the more specific you can be the better - we do use the forecast ourselves all day every day so we're probably all wanting much the same from it....
Belly Scraper713 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi Ben, I think you use Bournemouth for the tides associated with the the Bournemouth Area Reefs spot, where as I think you will find that Portland or sites slightly to the East of Portland will give a much more accurate tidal prediction. This is not a 3.0 issue by the way. I think the site is excellent and keeps getting better. I have had some epic days as a result of your forecasts. Thanks!!!
marita3378689 days ago +5 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi, it must be very frustrating havingpeople critisise your work. but for people like me, the average surf forcast reader its frustrating when u look at a site and its wrong. likei have said before i use my local shops chimmet and your site, in combination it all normally is spot on. anyone i speak to regards magicseaweed all have the same comment whats happened to it. I have the old link and itsodd how it matches up fairlywell. 10 to 15 ces period all wk, but noton the new one 4 to 7 sec. so when the average surfer looks at seaweed now theyjust go nope its pants,and when i speak to anyone did u go the other day it was nice clean fun wave they say no, its ok for people who live near or can understand all the complicated charts, but maybe its to complex.it also seems to match up for the brighton bournmouth areas. where as before the witterings was alway different.i am speaking for many people, its not just me so please dont discard what i am saying cos of annoyance.i have found that i dont use this site now and many others and its a habbit i have used it for many years so is a shame.
jlawrence34491 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
hi msw, you guys dont get enough credit! Having done a BSc in oceanographic wave modelling and prediction at NOC, i know how freakin difficult it is! so, just a message to say.......THANKS! keep up the good work guys and girls - J
goofy_ft717 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
any chance to get Bob Hall Pier (gulf of Mexico) back on the old system? The new system is simply not usable for BHP. I'd love to come back to MSW but the new system just made it too tedious to quickly get a forecast.
Ben Freeston716 days ago -2 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi Goofy, Can you explain what it's not doing that you want it to do? I've changed it today to show all incoming swells, with the ones that are too weak to make surf greyed out - was this the problem?
goofy_ft713 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi Ben, thank you so much! Not sure how good of a job i can do to explain. the new system seems to systematically overshoot or undershoot the conditions: for example going from no swell to 5ft swell back down to no swell in a 6 hours time frame. we don't get swells that form thousands of miles away here in the Gulf of Mexico. Most of our swells our near shore wind generated. maybe that's part of the problem? to be honest, i'm no expert and i don't have a lot of time to study forecasts. all i can tell you is that i had come to rely heavily on the bar graph to plan sessions and it worked really good for me. with the 3.0 forecast, the bar graph was all over the map and just did not correlate to actual conditions. sorry, wish i could give you a more scientific explanation.
Ben Freeston696 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi, Sorry for the delay replying. What I need to make clear is all the new system is doing is laying out the data in what we hope is a clearer way - the actual data hasn't changed. So I'm struggling to see a real cause for the effect your experiencing, perhaps it's just an unusual set of conditions that's occurred around the time we launched the new design? Are you still experiencing this same problem? To be clear the model we use is fairly robust, while nothing is ever perfect we use it reliably to judge long range southern ocean groundswells but just as often to make the call for very short range wind swell - there's nothing so odd about where your surfing that this should no longer be the case.
marita3378689 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
i agreee with this too.
Island Path Panama718 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Whereas I appreciate the effort, there is still a consequential flaw in your way of rating surf using the star system. You use a single algorithm across the world that seemingly does not take in consideration ocean depth and shore slope. I live (and have a surf business) in Bocas Del Toro, Panama. The surf is notorious for barrels and it deserves the reputation. It rages down here yet usually rates less than 3 stars. Our surf primarily comes from localized storms off the north of Colombia sending short period swells into our wave window. MagicSeaweed rates these swells in the two - three star range due to the shorter period (usually 7 to 9 seonds)...yet the surf typically will be off-the-nut. Unless the ocean depth (for Bocas - it is 9000 feet deep 30 miles out) is factored in your algorithm, as well as the localized shore slope, the wave forecast will continue to lack the crediability you seek. Again - my respect for your continued attempts to get it right but you are not there yet.
Ben Freeston717 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
We've called it a swell rating rather than surf rating for this reason - there's simply no way to accurately judge the final wave result even for one spot let alone globally. With a beach break regardless of the slope and depth the shifting sand can change a mushy 3ft wave into a pitching 5ft wave from session to session - we have to be realistic that we can never account for this and I've taken the line that it's better to be honest about it's weakness than pretend it's smarter than it is - it doesn't make a lot of sense to carefully measure the beach slope globally only to be unable to predict the last, crucial 100ft as the banks and reef change with time and tide. For you with the good fortune to surf at a fantastically set up break three stars might be classic surf, for a surfer living on the Gulf coast this might also be a classic day, but for different reasons (that it's a lot less consistent). It's an imperfect tool but I hope that it still means that, at a glance, you can spot the better swells from the worse ones and, with a bit of local knowledge, get a better forecast than you might without. We'll continue to use every technique we can to improve it, eyeball feedback, bathymetry, nearshore models, but I'd be very wary of anyone who pretends to have a perfect system right now. Thanks for the feedback.
Island Path Panama714 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hey Ben, thanks for the response. I trust you'd understand that a rating using Stars sets a standard benchmark against all swell. And I understand the difference between swell and surf - however, most surfers looking at this don't. They see stars and look at a region/spot and relate it to good v bad surf that they expect to ride. Being that I am a business owner in a place that has truly fantastic surf - the star system mitigates the reality of what we have - and that is challenging for us. 5 stars at Santa Catalina will always look more appealing than 2 stars here in Bocas...but our surf on that day may be significantly better. I trust you can understand my thoughts. This said, I still feel that MSW puts forth the best surf forecast data available, I just wish you'd drop the star metric as it is arguable.
Ben Freeston713 days ago +4 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Have you spoken to anyone here about setting up to upload an eyeball report or local photos? I appreciate your issue and the fairest way to redress the balance is to speak directly to our audience when the swell is pumping - this allows you to tell it exactly as is is including your own star rating for the spot on that day and all reports will both rep the break and your business, we'll make sure your logo is on the report and it'll link directly back to your website.
Island Path Panama711 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
This is a great way to address this issue. Please drop me an email on how to do this and I can start providing my information re: local conditions. info@islandpathpanama.com gets me.
stew731 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
hey everyone....i think the worlds become obsessed with communication and being exsact about everything... as surfers the last thing we want to be doin is stressing over a computor about swell predictions...lets face it were at the mercey of mother nature from cradle to grave and surfin is no differant... i have surfed my local spots on the south coast for near 20 years now and remember reading weather charts on tv goin outside to check wind and feel and if it was pumpin drivin back to the local telephone box to make calls, this i think made it more rewarding in some ways but it also gives you a sense also which i think forcasts if you take them too seriously can kill.. i do look at the old seaweed and extract the info i need and add it to other knowlage and over the years it has been a great FREE help in a world where not much is free anymore.. so to anyone out there who wants to go surf experianced or beginer remember no one can predict mother nature to a T or we would be surfin with robots by now so lets not grumble about a FREE site tryin to help us go surfin A.......peace out.
malpractice736 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Please Please please can you sandwich the daily tide graphs between the days in the full swell breakdown table? Thanks
marita3378735 days ago -2 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
hi, how come we cant and people i spoken to say the same the site shows 1ft@13sec but we have 1.4+m@15+ sec half the day today. we have good surf from now for a few days and the swell showing on the charts to the page of hour by hour. why cant it show the swell like it used to, does anyone agree. i not the only one who is struggling with it for the witterings. it has got to complex.
GadgetUK437735 days ago +2 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Here Here, I second that. It would fit on the table on the left under the Day and date. It's a pretty important factor for surf prediction at UK beaches.
BuzyG736 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Ben Love MS forcast check them every day. I've noted, with intrest, the forcast for south cornwall, Whitsands bay, this coming weekend. Detailed report shows a large swell vertualy vanising on Sunday evening and then back even Bigger Monday morning. I've been watching this stretch of coast for a few years now, I'm 48, and with the eception of the occasional big local wind swell, this does not happen. I'll take a look a few times over the weekend a try and give a measured comparison between star rating and what I see.
BuzyG733 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Quick update star rating vs visual. Well thus far some good some not for this weeked. Friday evening was a narly blown out 3-4 ft. No one was in, where I checked and I wasn't tempted despite a week of no surfing. so that would be 0 stars from me. MSW close but no cigar. Sat morning push was the best i've seen this season. 6ft+ of mouth watering perfection & a beatiful sunny day to boot, 5 stars. MSW spot on. Sat evening. Big drop in size mainy due to tidal affect on the break i'm checking. Sun still shining till the stars appearer. 4 Stars. MSW spot on. Sun Morning. big change in wind direction but very light. Bit bigger that last night now its pushing again. Suns been replaced by cloud. So dispite the slightly bigger size it gets 3 stars from me. MSW Spot on again. Do you allow for it being sunny in your rating? It certainly effect how I feel about the surf I'm looking at. Or I might just be knackerd from Yesterday.
BuzyG733 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
Ok final look for the weekend and it was going so well. But I'm afraid a 1 star prediction from MSW for the session I've just come from at whitsands is totaly wrong. 3-4 foot on the well spaced sets & almost glassy barrels on a few sets. Gets a 3, may be even 4 stars from me. No sun today but the surf was pumping just fine. Keep up the good work guys it's a fantastic service you provide, but there still a way to go before you get it just right.
BuzyG731 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Took a look at whitsands tonight on the way home. Similar to Sunday glassy 3-4 ft. Intrigued at a 1 star rating on sunday and a 5 start rating today at a similar time tide. Would have given both a 3 start from the visual. Hope you find this small selection of localised reports, from the recent swells useful, in your continuing and ever improving search for the best prediction.
brunon736 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
http://magicseaweed.com/Etretat-Surf-Report/80/multiSwell/europe/#forecastTable why this forecast is always wrong ? Please check for next saturday we will have waves and on the full swell forecast , still nothing?
Ben Freeston736 days ago -2 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi Brunon, I've moved the data point for this and it's now expecting saturdays swell to peak at 1.4m@16 seconds - this looks optimistic to me but I'd be interested to hear how big it does get, Thanks.
jugglia737 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi Ben, Looking at the Bantham report today, the dominant swell appears to be about a foot bigger than either of the swells making it up - have I misunderstood something? On the old version (the spectral breakdown) it seemed like I could see ALL of the swells rather than just 3, and that gave me a pretty good idea of what was going on and what I could expect at spots that aren't listed. I'm a bit confused now... Does the algorithm for dominant swell include swells that aren't listed on the website?
jugglia737 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
OK, I can't delete that last comment so I'll just have to rephrase the question. I'm confused. Three questions then: On the full swell breakdown, are the swell sizes meant to be the size of the wave on the beach or the size 5 miles out to sea? Is the Dominant swell size an actual predicted swell, or is it created from the other three swells? I if it is created from other swells are there other swells not listed? The reason I ask this is because you say in your Godrevy reply: The 'height' will be a combination of all swells running, in this case the 6ft. This is the average potential size of the combination of the 5ft, 2ft and 1ft swells that are present, although not specifically taking into account them hitting the beach as surf ??? How is 6ft an average of 5, 2 and 1??? Sorry. I'm trying to work out if the swells big enough to get round to M**sands this weekend and I know that on the spectral at about 16ft last year it was pumping...
Ben Freeston736 days ago +5 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi Jugglia, Again firstly while we've tweaked the forecasts a little with this new release the issues you're talking about have always existed. The spectral information was taken from a location over 200 miles from the beach, for me seeing the tertiary swell at this distance has no benefit over the full swell breakdown we now have. The software is looking at all the swell running and using a series of complex algorithms to ascertain the likely combined swell height. It's not adding the component swells together at all, in fact it's looking at the entire sea state and making a judgement as to the maximum potential average height, and it's THEN splitting out the swell into it's components. It's an extremely complex statistical analysis, sometimes it might feel a 3ft swell and a 4ft swell will make a maximum potential 5ft, another time a maximum of 7ft depending on the mix of frequencies available. If you check this link: http://polar.ncep.noaa.gov/waves/WEB_P/multi_1.latest_run/plots/multi_1.62103.spec.png you can see several spectral plots, it's not too important that you understand exactly what this diagram is showing (although it'll help you get waves) but understand that it's a graphical representation of the state of the swell at any one place and time. If you look on the top right of each frame you can see the total swell height. If you check the panels with similar readings you'll see how different they can look and start to understand the issues of trying to explain the image in even three or four sets of numbers. I surfed Bantham this morning, the swell is definitely in the 3-4ft range (perhaps chest high on the better sets) and as messy and mixed up as the forecast suggests, however you can definitely feel the power of the long period swell within the jumble of the low period chop. For saturday morning the swell hits a 'pure' 13.2ft 16secs with (importantly for you) a south westerly direction. This is a monster swell for us by any standards, I'd fully expect it to wrap comfortably to the stretch of coast you're interested in, I've not surfed the spot you're interested in but others in the area on swells smaller than this...
jugglia736 days ago +3 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Thanks for the reply Ben, I'm beginning to get my head round it. I didn't realise that the spectral breakdown was taken from so far away - that makes a lot more sense now. Also thanks for the personalized surf forecast - you know if you gave me your telephone number it would save me a lot of time! ;) Cheers
The Badger737 days ago +3 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Good detail...BUT, am I being a tool or is there an issue with the long-range tide predictions? Each time I click the tab on any UK break (through Internet explorer or firefox) nothing happens????
Ben Freeston737 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Not a tool unfortunately my cock up fixed now...
marita3378737 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Same with me ';0
The Badger736 days ago -2 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Thanks! Good work
Bear Kookilicious737 days ago +4 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
I'm looking at today's forecast for my nearest break (Godrevy), and don't think it makes sense. You're showing 6.1 feet at 15 seconds as the dominant swell. But when I look at the components of that swell (primary, secondary & wind swells) you've got 2.3ft @ 15s, 1.6ft @ 10s & 5.4ft @ 7s. There's no way those three swells are going to combine to look like a 6ft 15s swell - surely that's a mistake. I've checked the sea and there's not much happening. The dominant swell seems to be a short period swell. Surely the hour by hour forecast should read 6ft @ 7s (which is actually what one of your competitors is showing).
Ben Freeston737 days ago +3 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Long answer to this one so I've put it up separately here: http://magicseaweed.com/Dominant-swell-for-Godrevy-doesnt-make-sense-Content/2229/
Bear Kookilicious737 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Thanks Ben, that makes sense. I understand how the dominate swell was calculated but I'm not sure how useful that figure is for surfers - except where there's only one real swell component. Anyway, love the new "full swell breakdown" tab. Thanks again for the comprehensive answer.
Ben Freeston737 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
It's imperfect - but the limit really is anyone's ability to stand on the beach and, even face to face with the situation, describe the conditions and the waves in just two numbers, trying to do this remotely from a computer is never going to be perfect perfect - that said we *know* in a way we just didn't a decade ago that the by tomorrow it'll be banging :) Although the concept of a 'star rating' might seem a bit weak to a dedicated surfer used to digging into the models the forecast for today put a meagre two grey stars on the surf, with a pumping 3-5 for tomorrow - the surf check of saying 'it really wasn't that great despite the complex mix of swells' - it's actually a pretty powerful tool for us to talk a little more like real people, about the quality of the swell not just the quantity...
marita3378737 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
All this works for most places im sure but the witterings seems to be a bit different and very unpredictable till it gets there
Ben Freeston737 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
They look fairly consistent at the moment Marita, Chimet is showing a small 15 second period swell and a wind swell with a combined height of about 2ft. We're showing that tiny groundswell at 13-14seconds and a bad southerly windswell (albeit a bit larger). I don't know if you use it but the Bracklesham Buoy here: http://www.channelcoast.org/data_management/real_time_data/charts/?chart=67 Is possibly more use than Chimet. Either way we've changed the forecast data now and I hope it should be more accurate and useful than either it, or the old lowres, was for interpreting the conditions.
marita3378736 days ago -2 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Thanks for the info. hope your paitence hasnt worn off yet,but again, the site shows 0.5@14 sec, from 11 onwards the witterings had a 2 ft ish wave with light winds. and chimet showing near 1m of swell. i understand that u cant get everything exact and it never has been but am i now misssing something that 0.5 scould be the breakning wave rather than out at sea cos that would make it flat as flat can be. we have to have atleast 3.5 showing for any chance of a wave at home with a good period.and eventhats iffy. i know i need to learn more but taking half an hour just to save me a 40 min trip is getting silly. i did rely on 3 sites.anyway i wont annoy you any more thankyou again
webbyji738 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi Ben, to return to Marita's comments on using the Low Res data for the witterings. I was very used to interpreting the old MSW reports for Brighton and the Witterings. After years of comparing reports to sea conditions and not worrying too much about how many stars the computer gave the forecast I reckon that I could predict an ok session with a good deal of accuracy. So perhaps I haven't learnt to interpret the new model properly yet but it's producing forecasts that seem counter intuitive. Saturday is 5.5 feet at 14 or so seconds at Brighton but less than half that at the Witterings for the same time and day. The groundswell is coming from the west. It is always bigger at the witterings on a groundswell, so should I belive the forecast? I never saw this happen with the old model. Perhaps it's just an anomaly that will sort itself as the forecast advances? Anyway, many thanks for all your work on this Cheers Martin
Ben Freeston737 days ago -3 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi Martin, The old model was so coarse the data for Brighton, the Witterings and that whole stretch of coast was the same - it looks like when we brought in the new data we didn't refine the data points enough - in short I think it was our fault rather than the hires data and we've made some changes now that should mean that you get the benefits of a better data set and a sensible local forecast (sorry no 6ft groundswells in Brighton....). Apologies Marita - although the forecast I checked was identical we have seen the same issue with the longer range swells there and updated the data accordingly.
marita3378737 days ago -2 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
ok. but chimet says 1 thing magic another. i used to go down there on the high reserve before i knew any different and it was always no good. after a few years i got to know the right people and know how the witterings work. just liked the old way and having low reserve and i think many people would agree im sure. and like it a bit more simple and not changed if we dont totally understand the science behind it all. the other thing too is i cannot open the longrange tides for the week. thats important. Thanks
marita3378737 days ago +2 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
im not having a go ben, good work, i agree with this guy totally on what he is saying.
Ben Freeston736 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Tides were fixed yesterday - are you still having problems? It's working fine here?
marita3378736 days ago -3 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
yep working thanks
Foz Holidays739 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Also just noticed that the iGoogle gadget is only showing Fistral without the option to change location as it had before.
Foz Holidays738 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
it's working again now. Cheers!
Ben Freeston738 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
This should be fixed now sorry.
goofy_ft740 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
I hope the new system works for some folks. but it's pretty useless for the Gulf of Mexico. I used to rely on MSW quite a bit to time sessions and the like, but no can do since the new system went live. Winds are all wrong (wrong direction and strength) and swell jumps from 6ft to no swell back to 6ft in a 3 hour span. what a bummer. please, please bring back the old system.
Ben Freeston740 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
Goofy the winds haven't changed at all - they're exactly the same as with the old system, so don't know what's up there. Can you tell me what spots you're looking at and I can switch them to the old system if it's more appropriate for displaying the swell. As above if you click 'full swell breakdown' the column on the left IS the old forecast exactly as it was for swell. Let me know the spots and I'll take a check on it for you. Cheers, Ben
goofy_ft739 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Thanks Ben. The main site i look at is Bob Hall Pier. The model that works best for wind around here is the NAM model, just FYI. Also, i know i can get the old data on the "Full Swell Breakdown" tab, but being able to quickly check the forecast using the bar graph is, imo, one of the selling points of MSW. thanks again for looking into it.
t-WHARF743 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Ben, I have found the old "Lo Res data" works best for certain spots. Is this still accessible anywhere? I would have missed some epic sessions if it wasnt for that forecast dataset - if it has gone, then please bring it back!!! Cheers, Tom
Gruff743 days ago +2 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Have to agree. Anybody going by the High Res data would have completely missed out on 4 glassy days over here this week. Low Res was frequently more accurate here in North Wales.
marita3378743 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi, how do we get the low reserve data,as it was best for the witterings and what its showing now does not work with the surf today. can i get it back as i have been looking for a while. ta
Mrpuzzle743 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
I'm with Tom, Low Res data was superb for some locations. This would be a big blow for some users to lose this... Please bring it back or post a clearer link! Another Tom
Ben Freeston742 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
I'm going to check carefully any spot where I'm told there's a significant difference but I'm very sceptical (there might be some exceptions - I need to look at North Wales, the interesting story there is the lowres data ISNT North Wales, the data only runs as far as South Wales so you have the same forecasts, the Hires if we get it right should be a lot better). For UK waters there's not a huge difference in the headline figures. Both sets of data are produced from the same model in the same way, it's very similar to an enlarged photograph, if you look closely you'll see small differences but the picture should be very similar. I'll put together some graphs so you can see the difference - if there is a problem I can fix it but, with respect, I think a lot of it is down to perception...
Ben Freeston742 days ago -2 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Marita the forecast data for witterings today is identical on the new forecast and the lowres data 6ft@6secs of swell on both from the west. At that period it's going to be just complete rubbish wind chop that really will only be surfable if you're desperate - hence the zero stars - checking the eyeball report from this morning it looks like unsurfable wind swell. Can I ask what you saw as wrong with this and perhaps I can explain it better or work out what's wrong?
Gruff742 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi Ben, Thanks for your reply. I'm not going to pretend to understand how you calculate both high and low res data, but I can say that Hell's Mouth saw good clean rideable waves on both Saturday and Sunday (23+24/01/10) where the low res data picked it up, the high res data was far more pessimistic. This is not just my perception as I'm sure you can access your historical data and correlate it to both my experience and the local surf shop's surf report for that weekend below: Westcoastsurf.co.uk surf report - Thursday 28th Jan 1010 "Last week was amazing. Solid waves, sunshine and light wind combined to produce some epic waves. Saturday was smaller but still solid enough and beautifully clean. Sunday was a bit smaller and had a light north west chop on it. Monday was still good with glassy waves. Tuesday was a touch smaller but still ok and even wednesday morning was still fine..."
Ben Freeston741 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi Gruff, Absolutely - like you say I can now go compare the data - The lowres data doesn't attempt to work out what happens as swell travels into St George's Channel at all, the new data does, but possibly it's not seeing swells refracting as well as they can. It's a special case because of the complexity of the situation and the solution isn't to bring back the lowres data I don't think, but once I've checked it out, fix the hires data. I'll be onto it next week and thanks for the feedback. Ben
Gruff741 days ago -3 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
No worries Ben. Thanks for taking my/our comments seriously. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!
Gruff741 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
To further my evidence of last weekend's conditions check exhibit a! http://magicseaweed.com/photoLab/viewPhoto.php?photoId=149863&browseSession=1ddf4fd58352cc5f16cc68849a693568
Ben Freeston738 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Tricky one Gruff - looking at it the difference between the two for the weekend was about 3.5ft@11 to 5ft@11 - both showing surfable swells with the lowres the larger. My suspicion looking into it is that the lowres is overcalling (it showed absolutely pumping overhead conditions all of that week which we did get here in Cornwall / Devon where the hires showed only the weekend really standing out. I suspect that looking at it as i mentioned before we have limited options for refining the forecast, it's either going to overcall (as did the lowres) but at least show all swells - or be more realistic (as the new model) but miss swells that definitely DO make it to the beach, out of interest do you use the nearshore wave height at all? This takes the data incoming to the South West and does calculate more effectively it's ability to wrap up to North Wales?
Gruff737 days ago +3 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi Ben, Unfortunately my memory is starting to flounder regarding beach conditions last week, so can't say much about it now, although I did get 4/5 good days out between the Lleyn and Anglesey. I think the truth lies in the fact that MSW has never been spot-on with North Wales, and so people (well 'I') tended to reinterpret what you had on here, checked out other sources and then matched it with previous experiences i.e. there was still quite a lot of guess work and gut feeling involved. Whereas now that you're being a bit smarter - similar to my experience with the hi-res data - it's more difficult to second guess the data and make an accurate prediction.
Gruff737 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
Sorry, forgot to answer your question, I haven't taken much notice of the nearshore data, but will do from now and see what I can take from it.
plappers743 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Great stuff - you seem to be taking much more of the 'skill' out of forecast interpretation which is a good thing despite a couple of 'localistic' comments below - Now its time to tackle the last big hurdle and start running a coastal WRF. Which ~should~ make the whole process free from interpreting between 'open ocean' swell and what's happening at the beach in the most scientific way possible. Ben, I emailed you the other day about whether you would like to explore this avenue in more detail? Plappers.
plappers743 days ago -3 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Wierd, I've turned norweigan?!!?!?!
Ben Freeston742 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
Just been out of touch with so much to do but be good to catch up and talk it through. Sorry for the lack of reply though!
greatnicholl744 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
well done guys
▌▀▼▀▐744 days ago -4 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
I actully Love it! its a great modernisation from the last version :)
SurfeJonas744 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
I like the new layout of the forecast. Well done! In my opinion it would be even better with these adjustments: - Make the lightest stars a little darker. Now they are a little to close to white. - Wind speed in meter pr second for the European units mode. - Also 24h clock in European units mode. Keep up the good work!
BuzyG744 days ago -2 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Well done MSW. You have done exactly what I & no doubt many others did in our heads by diching the off shore swells and showing more of the waves heading towards the beach. Will be interesting to see if the main forcast gets its right more often. Two possible drawbacks, 1. Bit selfish I know, but more people may now turn up on thoughs days when it used to say 2ft but was actualy 3-4 ft. Happend a lot down on the south cost and you could dusualy spot it from the detailed data. 2. Spots that are round the corner from the main breaks the main information is now less useful. As the raw data is still available this is fine by me, as these may now become even less sufed by the crowd. Thanks and keep on improving a great service.
s0ulsurfing744 days ago +2 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
yep, had the same selfish thought, still get a lot of days down here when the crowd missed out from not reading the data properly, kinda hoping that doesnt change as they are always a little bonus for the locals
Foz Holidays744 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Looks the RSS feeds no longer work... Are you planning on making these availble again I found them really useful.
Ben Freeston744 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
I don't know why they're not working - I'm trying to fix it as soon as I can figure out the problem!
Foz Holidays743 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hey Ben, Any News on the RSS feeds?
Ben Freeston741 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
Should be working ok again now?
Foz Holidays739 days ago -3 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hey Ben, They're working but where the stars were - now it just says "Array Stars"
Foz Holidays738 days ago Unrated Rate Positive Rate Negative
Stars are back now in the feeds - Thanks!
Museum of British Surfing744 days ago -1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
I've just re-loaded the iPhone app via iTunes and it seems to be working again...
Ben Freeston744 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
No our mistake - thanks for the feedback, we missed it but it's sorted now...
Museum of British Surfing744 days ago +1 Rating Rate Positive Rate Negative
Hi there The forecast looks a lot clearer in its presentation, and more detail is good. I don't know if this is a coincidence but my iPhone application (set to Saunton) is not working following this upgrade - I simply get an error message. Thanks, Pete
 
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