MSW's Print on Demand » What is it?

By Ed Magicseaweed - Published on 11th March 2010 | Viewed 14950 times.

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[PT-What is it?]

PRINT on Demand is now live. Upload prints from anywhere in the world and sell them to anyone in the world. Our beta testing over the previous few months should have ironed out any glitches and it's free for anyone to join HERE. All that is required of you is a PayPal account so that we can pay you.

We here at Magicseaweed already host the largest database of surf photos anywhere in the world with 100s of thousands of images on the site and hundreds more uploaded every day. We love surf photos and wanted to develop a medium whereby we could generate revenue for photogs who fundamentally support the industry whilst often being squeezed financially.

This is, we hope, a kind of democracy whereby you take a shot and if people want to own it they can. How big is the potential? If it's a shot which a 1000 people need to have on their wall, why can't you sell it it a 1000 times over? We have yet to find out.

So whether you're shooting from the beach and think the guys surfing may want a one-off shot of themselves then go ahead and use it. Or alternatively, if you've taken a classic shot of which you can sell prints of many times over then upload that too.

Your return as a photographer is 25% of the cover price which you can set yourself. So if you think it's worth $10 or $1000 then you set the price at whatever level you think equitable.

How do I make it work?

When you click into the 'Upload Photo' section you'll see the below image. Click 'Sign Up Now' and away you go.

If you have any problems then drop us an email, comment below, or click onto Page 2 for a more detailed step-by-step description.

Good luck, Team MSW

This article has been given an average rating of 3.53 from 706 votes.

Comments

Archived Comments

	stoneage130 days ago	Unrated
	help, is there a way to add P.O.D. to a previously submitted photo such as my awesome photo of the day, or do i have to resubmit to make it printable?

	sponge-fortified685 days ago	-1 Rating
	Just a couple questions: 1. If someone arrives at the site with the intent to buy some prints, how do they do this? There is no obvious way to browse all available prints. 2. If I want to go nuts and buy a print at 47 x 31 for example, how do I know the uploaded photo contains enough pixels to produce a quality print that large? I don't want to part with 200+ dollars for a poster that was simply enlarged from a smaller digital file.

	soutie690 days ago	+1 Rating
	where's all my money then?

	harveywallbanger687 days ago	Unrated
	Ha ha Soutie Takes This One//

	dangalow687 days ago	Unrated
	LOL....u didn't forget that u spent it all on clown makeup, did u soutie?

	devocean696 days ago	+1 Rating
	If you think the photogs are getting ripped off then have a long and hard think about the coffee or tea pickers next time you sit down for a cuppa. I hope you are as passionate about them getting a fair deal as well...

	soutie683 days ago	+2 Rating
	i am sitting down with a cuppa right now, but i am thinking more of the large breasted maid who milked the cow.

	leendert mulder697 days ago	+1 Rating
	Hi..Great Idea but As it looks now it's not very transparent. I don't fully understand how your prices are built up.I don't see a breakdown of the printing costs and handling fees etc . So I can't see where the 75% goes to. I would to suggest this... Have standard prices for the different format prints that covers the costs for that format, covering paper, ink & printer, mailing tubes & handling ...keep it as low as possible without compromising quality + 10 % of that for MSW. On top of that the photographer adds his desired fee. Off of that fee deduct 40% for MSW. So the photographer gets 60% of his desired fee and MSW 40%. add another 5% over the total ( fee + costs), also for MSW Then add postage for the client. If everything is calibrated properly It's largely an automated process and as volumes go up profits will too.

	devocean696 days ago	+1 Rating
	This sounds reasonable. Whether it is "fair" or not with any system depends to a certain degree on what the asking price of the photo is, really. Considering that it is unlikely that photogs would find the audience that MSW can give them anywhere else, then it is not unreasonable for MSW to take a decent cut. I suspect they have really done the hard yards to get to where they are - being able to offer such a big audience.

	Get Joggly697 days ago	+3 Rating
	A small percentage donated to a worthy cause (surfers against sewerage) might sweeten the deal..... for everyone !

	CarpeWave700 days ago	Unrated
	I'd like to make a suggestion. Can you make another price option for the person to just pay for and download the file? The photographer could charge a lot less for this and people would likely choose this option if they had their own printer. Might sell a lot more photos this way too.

	Sneakybadger 700 days ago	-1 Rating
	Awesome idea!!!!! I would be a lot more likely to buy a cheaper digital copy. Would there be copyright risks though? eg.. mass resale?

	Sneakybadger 700 days ago	+1 Rating
	I notice on the picture threads that a lot of people ask for hi res versions from the photographers, for things like desktop wallpapers etc... could be an option??

	CarpeWave700 days ago	Unrated
	Any photo that you're paying for should be high res, (whether downloading or printing) or that's just messed up.

	Ben Freeston699 days ago	+1 Rating
	We talked it through and it works well for those shots you might want to buy of yourself caught surfing your local beach, but for most professionals we spoke to the single most frightening idea was the hires shots making their way 'out there' and them losing control of what is their main product - for this reason we actually keep the hires shots used for the prints well away from being web accessible, with the same kind of security you'd expect for credit card details. I think for the moment this is the best way of convincing serious photographers that we understand their concerns, but certainly as it evolves the idea of opting into a digital distribution is something we're very open to.

	CarpeWave699 days ago	+1 Rating
	People can always just scan the photo onto the computer if they're that hard core to make money off someone else's art. What if the people would pay the same amount for an A4 for a download? Here's the thing. It plays to people's need for "immediate gratification" that is so prevalent in American society. Some people just got to have it right now!

	the vanity project699 days ago	+3 Rating
	Hahaha Ben, is that secure offline server where you now keep Sqirl? P.S. why is MSW being made out to be some evil corporate empire, its not like they are Exxon or GlaxoSmithKline is it?……yet? Yes, MSW thrives on user generated content but this print system is not enforced. Without everyone’s submissions it would just be a forecasting site/online magazine/shop, I don’t think they have lost sight of that fact. I imagine most users get more from MSW than vice versa.

	dangalow699 days ago	-2 Rating
	MSW.....corner market today....Wal-Mart tmorrow, did Sqirl graduate from bagger to cashier yet?

	Sneakybadger 699 days ago	+1 Rating
	VP, I'm not sure it being made out that way. Ol CarpeWave seems to have a problem but everyone else seems fine!? I may be wrong...!?? As stated above, i thought that mass re-sale / re-print could end up being a major problem with DD's. And scanning the prints is also a concern, unfortunately if someone is that determined to steal something they will always find a way. It is just up to us/msw/any retailer to make that process as hard as possible. Shame though, it was a nice idea from CarpeWave....

	Nuke the whales!690 days ago	Unrated
	why not have an option for the photographer that they can choose whether the photo can be sold via download and/or via print and have a different pricing system for each. surely that would keep everyone happy?

	jjhenry700 days ago	+1 Rating
	Awesome news MSW, think some people dont bother to read the details, seems like a pretty sound idea to me and hopefully will get some photos uploaded soon.

	Harv700 days ago	Unrated
	This is a great idea, well done MSW! Do not knock Carpe's fee comments however. Why not make MSW cut = (total cost per pic) + 50% of balance. So for a $10 pic that costs MSW $5 to produce... MSW keeps 75%, photog keeps 25%. Each makes the same money. For a $10,000 pic which would clearly be down to photog skill... it is not fair for MSW to keep $7,500 on a cost of $5.

	Ed Magicseaweed700 days ago	-2 Rating
	If you read what Ben said Bushpig, the photog gets 25% of the cover price, which they select. That is a generous above industry level of return. Our return in 'profit' is far less than 25% of the cover price - but we get small margin on each picture sold - hence we hope to eventually turn a small profit somewhere down the line.

	CarpeWave701 days ago	+2 Rating
	As a website, MSW would not make one cent from photos, unless it was for the photographers working hard out there and uploading the photos to begin with. So why take 75% of the profit of the shot?!! I think that the artist submitting the shot deserves 75% and you guys should take 25% At Most?!! That's pretty greedy and if you ask me, and it's an insult to the photographer. You just came up with a really creative way to fuel more traffic on your site, which increases your ad prices, which makes you more money. Instead of being a super cool feature on your website (which it could be if you change your rate), it turned into a large amount of money For YOU Guys! That's cool for you, but how bout the photographer getting $2.50 for his $10.00 shot? Laughable. Why not use PayPal (the web service also taking a cut) as an example and look at their percentage charge per transaction. You'll find that it is a lot lower, reasonable, and respectful. Your a large business and everyone knows it. How bout some ethics?

	Sneakybadger 701 days ago	+1 Rating
	Respectfully CarpeWave, I'm not sure you know what you are talking about!! Do you know how much it costs to take a digital file to print (a one off on demand)?? If you think it is so cheap then please send me a quote and the company that you got it from. I am currently on POD for a particular session and have not earned anything as of yet, highly likely that it is because my pics are not good enough. I am however in contact with a few pro photogs, these guys do sell prints on here and are very happy with the deal. The reasoning is as follows: With this system, it is NOT a one off sale for say example "A Painting" where as once it is sold it is gone, It is that same painting (which equals the same amount of effort) sold over and over again... Have you ever mused what it would be like to sell 2 million things for 50p or 50c......It is the same thing! I'm ranting i know but..........

	dangalow701 days ago	+3 Rating
	I think he skipped the end of the article sneaks...sounds like a sweet deal to me as well, and as long no ones charging 10 G's for one!

	Ben Freeston700 days ago	+5 Rating
	Hi Carpewave - to clarify the 25% is a percentage of the sale price, not the profit - we did the maths carefully, of course we pay to actually get the photo printed and sent, we pay the sales tax, the credit card gateway charges, we pay to manage the customer service, the bank charges and in the end we make a profit quite considerably less than the 25% offered to the photogs, which we understand beats commission available from most other services - in fact the only way we were able to find this margin was by negotiating printing rates that, because of scale, wouldn't be available to most photogs. However I'll add we're not ashamed to make a small profit on offering the service, it's entirely 'opt in' and, while I know everyone expects in internet to be entirely free in every aspect, we work hard here to make ends meet and keep our service free at considerable expense and we do feel that offering photographers an audience of almost a million surfers a month does have some value. If photographers feel it's unfair or unreasonable then they can absolutely vote with their feet and not participate - if however you have talent and a back catalogue that's earning no money and no exposure then you're welcome to join the currently participating photographers in earning some extra income with absolutely no outlay, commitment or additional work.

	Ball bingo700 days ago	+1 Rating
	Good luck with this MSW and great idea, if it helps to keep your excellent free website to the surf community going then you get my vote

	CarpeWave700 days ago	Unrated
	Ok, your whole argument rotates around a fixed price for a photo. Let's say you make 18% profit on a $10.00 price set by the photographer. You left it up to them to set the price. So then, the next guy sells his for $40.00. How much under 25% are you making on that one?! Yeah, you see, as the price of the photo goes up, the photographer continues to get less and less, but the more the photo costs, the more money left over after all the bills are paid and then who gets that money? The photographer? No, MSW gets it. Did you really think that point would go unnoticed? You have a good argument and some awesome thoughts, I just think the pricing system should be different. The only reason I wrote this comment was to get other people on board and see if my opinion was alone or not. Guess everyone else thinks it is a great idea, so enjoy all the money guys. This should make you uber rich.

	CarpeWave700 days ago	-2 Rating
	As a matter of a fact, I have "mused" at it. Let's look at what you're talking about here.....So if a photographer sells 1000 photos for $10.00, he gets $2,500.00. MSW gets the 75% or $7500.00 to cover their print costs and all that other stuff they said. What if a photographer is charging more for his photos? Like let's say the same scenario is happening but the photographer is charging $20.00 per shot. Now, MSW is making $15,000.00?!! Oh but wait, I bet all the over head costs are more for a more expensive shot right?!!! Not. MSW will pocket so much money off this it's unreal. Especially off photographers that are charging more for their shots.

	CarpeWave700 days ago	-1 Rating
	Oh, and don't forget, multiply all these numbers by.....however many photos are being sold from all over the world. They get all that too.

	Sneakybadger 700 days ago	-1 Rating
	Your right, yet you forget that this whole website is free and I doubt ads alone can cover all the costs/wages, I run a blog which collects revenue from advertising and it really isn't as much as you may think.......A million people a month: that is a serious amount of bandwidth especially considering how much rich media is hosted..... I would imagine the servers/host fee's alone eat a lot of this revenue. MSW is not forcing photographers to use this service, it is 100% up to the photographer in question. And if they earn the so called "unbalanced" figures you mentioned, wouldn't you think they deserve it? Websites like this take a LOT of work and money to run. The more money they make the better they can make it for us in the future........and then they can hire me, hehehe ...joke's :)

	CarpeWave700 days ago	-2 Rating
	So now (even after acknowledging my point) you move on to back your side, but with a different argument. If the first one doesn't work, you'll just try another. I'm still sticking behind mine, and I'm done arguing with you. The MSW guys at least throw out numbers and use logic. Feel free to chime in, but you've already lost my respect. You're just arguing for them because you like them. That's called bias. It doesn't belong here. I'm trying to get them to see my side and change their pricing methods. I never once said any of this was a bad idea. I love the concept they're starting. The one part of it that I don't agree with is: the pricing system. Just think they should put more thought into it. A company that is going to making money off the masses should do it ethically. The way the current system runs.....encourages photographers to raise their price (because they're only getting 25%) which in turn is a wonderful thing for MSW. It considerably raises their profit every time the photographer raises the price of the photo. The reason? Once you pay off all the over head, everything else is profit. Maybe the photographer should get a cut of what's left over. Maybe that would solve this whole problem. An example of a better possibility: Set up some ranges for "profit once the bills are paid"....if the profit falls into the 0-$10 range, we'll give the photographer $2.50 bonus. if it falls in the $10-20 profit range, we'll give the photographer $10.00 bonus on top of his 25%....something like that. If you have the potential to take all the largest profits from this deal, then you'll continue to appear greedy and unethical in my mind.

	Sneakybadger 700 days ago	+2 Rating
	I was simply saying your numbers are correct, not your overall argument. I should have made myself clearer in retrospect. I'm not asking for your respect nor am i looking for a row. I don't know you, i never will, therefor i don't really care what you think of me! I also don't know the MSW team therefor cannot like nor dislike them. I do however like the website and i am sure you do too as you have an account. I won't waste my "breath" continuing to portray my point as you seem set (as am i) and are starting to repeat yourself. I guess greed is relative because i see none here.

	CarpeWave700 days ago	-2 Rating
	Big picture, all I'm getting at is this: MSW stands to make soooo much money off this the way they have it set up. They didn't take the picture. They didn't buy the camera. They didn't sit there for hours to get the shot. All they did was sell it for the photographer. Sure that deserves a cut. But it should be well less than what the photographer is making. The photographer did the work. MSW just handled it. My belief is that the photographer...the artist....deserves more credit (monetary compensation) than MSW is giving them. I find absolutely astounding that I'm the only one that feels this way.

	dangalow700 days ago	Unrated
	I think ur suggestion of an added bonus is a great one carpwave...but as ben mentioned, they're eating all the crap(taxes ect)...it's clear the more u charge, the more someone will profit, but the services this site provides has great advantages for the surf photogs...a million surfers per day! and sneaks point about bandwidth, print costs, ect, all get ate by MSW...I wouldn't feel like ur the only one that can see ur point of view....I hope that u get heard, and ur suggestions are considered, though from the article, evrything looks finalized....still not a bad deal in my opinion....but I'm not a pro photog....

	CarpeWave700 days ago	-3 Rating
	I am aware of all the costs involved. They told me them. They are speaking of them all like they are all percentages of the sale price. They are not. Some are fixed costs. Like printing. It is only going to cost "X" dollars to print a photo. So if the price of the photo is more, the print charge doesn't go up. It stays at "X". Where's the extra money go?....in their pocket. I would like to point out that MSW was a successful website BEFORE they started selling photos. Taking that into consideration, they already have all the bandwidth and storage and personnel costs covered going into this venture. So I care not about those costs. They are negligible cause they're already covered. If you want to factor in how much the average monthly bandwidth usage increased from Pre-POD sales to Post-POD sales, then sure, that's fair to take out of the profit. Increased customer service to handle all this, sure, that's fair to take out. But those are small cost increases when you're talking about selling the world's largest collection of surf photos. What isn't fair is to leave an open top on the photo pricing and then not split the extra profit that they're making off the photos. And always remember, this isn't happening once, it's happening 1000s and 1000s of times a month. That's a lot of money for them. Some of that should be given to the photographer in some way or another. I thought that the bonus system is good too. Thanks for semi-agreeing with me Dangalow. Now if MSW would acknowledge that the photographer deserves some of that "extra" profit, and put it into practice, I'd be 100% happy with their new POD deal.

	CarpeWave700 days ago	-1 Rating
	Well, just checked out the prices of "Spot X." The photographer is charging $51.99 for the photo. We won't even worry about shipping, cause that'll cancel out. If MSW can tell me how they aren't making more on this sale than the photographer, I'll shut up.

	Ed Magicseaweed700 days ago	+2 Rating
	Ok, no worries, this is a good opportunity to allay any concerns. That's the maximum price, for an A2 print of that shot. Imagine how big an A2 custom shot is? It's not X amount for an A4 shot then profit, that X amount increases dramatically with size. A2 is 4 times the surface area of A4. This is operating cost and profit you're discussing (what does 6 months of development cost?) This is an equivalent shot from our guys: http://extremeboardshots.thirdlight.com/viewpicture.tlx?albumid=109817&pictureid=7785419 Notice an A2 costs less from us despite adding an extra link in the chain. There's nothing hidden here and it is again a simple choice: is the value right for the photog? Is it as good or better than equivalent? Does the concept work? Do people want to buy it? If any of the above is out of kilter the idea will fail.

	CarpeWave700 days ago	+2 Rating
	Please re-read my last sentence of my last post right above your post, and then read the next sentence. So how much profit are you making, cause it sure seems like you'd be making more than the photographer's 25%? The point is, if MSW makes greater than 25% of the original sale price, that's more than the photographer and that's messed up. Here's what I propose. If you make greater than the photographer on any photo, write up a program to automatically split any profit greater than 25%. Split that profit (only the profit >25%) with the photographer, or if you gave all of it to the photographer, that would be even cooler. If you're making as much or more than the photographer in any case, that's messed up and unethical. It's making more than the artist by selling the artist's work.

	Ben Freeston699 days ago	-2 Rating
	The increase in prices we show here reflects the increased costs of printing at size. For us to be making as much of a cut as the photographer they'd need to be charging in the region of $50+ for an A4 print - anyone who can prove an ability to sell at this sort of price we're happy to negotiate a fair custom rate - I really don't think there's a market for that outside of perhaps limited signed prints in a gallery space which isn't what we're offering here, so it's all pretty academic... Out of interest the seasoned professionals we spoke to were showing their work in galleries and seeing an average return of 20% or less on sales and when we sell our own prints direct in our own shop with no middle man at all we made about 22% on average - our setup is designed to beat anything currently out there...

	CarpeWave699 days ago	-1 Rating
	Ok, well sounds like a great deal if people use standard pricing. If photographers start increasing their prices above standard pricing, then you have an ethical decision on what to do with the >25% profit. I would encourage you to keep from making more than the photographer. I plan on submitting photos, I just think that if MSW ever makes more than the photographer, then that's just plain wrong. Right now the system is setup to run that way if the photographer chooses to up the ante. Thanks for replying about your standard pricing. Seems really fair.

	Sneakybadger 701 days ago	+3 Rating
	Hey fella's, good that it's all out of beta now. As the format has changed marginally, do I have to reset anything in my POD edit area? I already have a few in there, merci beaucoup, Badger of Sneak.

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